Bot Builder's Info

Guides => Other MST3K Related Bots => Topic started by: Waverly on June 03, 2017, 06:21:38 PM

Title: Growler
Post by: Waverly on June 03, 2017, 06:21:38 PM
Why should Waverly have all the fun? :)

(http://www.mrgrant.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/IMG_0221.jpg)
Title: Re: Growler
Post by: Danzilla93 on June 03, 2017, 11:25:32 PM
Haha, why indeed?!?!  ;D

That is a gorgeous picture.  I've been meaning to start a Growler thread for a while, but thought I'd try to ID some parts first.  I've had little luck so far, so I'm glad there's now a place to discuss and research this awesome guy!

Like Waverly, Growler started his life as one of Joel's Basement Bots, but went through a HUGE evolution, to the point that it appears not a lot of original parts were used in the final design.  The head is the biggest similarity.  But there may be some other reused bits.  I've included some screenshots below for reference to aid us on our quest.

So... anyone have any ideas about what parts were used? 

The game is afoot!

Title: Re: Growler
Post by: Danzilla93 on June 03, 2017, 11:28:41 PM
And for reference, here is the Basement Bot version:
Title: Re: Growler
Post by: Ron on June 04, 2017, 09:54:10 AM
Ivan was kind enough to take a ton of closeups of the new bots when I was out there on the set visit.  I really hope Joel finally OKs those for release some day :(
Title: Re: Growler
Post by: fastbilly1 on June 04, 2017, 03:47:46 PM
I was honestly hoping to ID all the parts on Waverly before starting on Growler.

Well we know his body was milled, and his arms are corrugated garden tubes.
Shoulders look like knee pads.
Nose is probably vacuum formed over knob.
Title: Re: Growler
Post by: Danzilla93 on June 05, 2017, 08:46:59 PM
I'm really intrigued by what the head could be.  It looks like a bucket, with perhaps the lid functioning as the lower jaw.  It almost looks like the bucket stood on 4 legs like an animal.

3D printed or not, I'm willing to bet the majority of the parts are based on found object.  I wonder what the body is?
Title: Re: Growler
Post by: fastbilly1 on June 06, 2017, 11:26:12 AM
On the little bot his body is likely bellowed plastic pipe:
(https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB17Qw4LXXXXXc0XXXXq6xXFXXXT/corrugated-font-b-pipe-b-font-drain-font-b-pipe-b-font-sylphon-font-b-bellows.jpg)
Title: Re: Growler
Post by: fastbilly1 on June 23, 2017, 01:27:17 PM
Well since most of Waverly has been IDed (enough that he will look right from a distance), time to focus on Growler.  My goal is to have both built to take to the showing in Nashville (well and Jumbo Waverly)

His arms and neck are corrugated drainage pipe like Gypsy umbilicus
Hands look like mechanics gloves with the pink foam on the top painted green
Shoulders are connected to body with a piece of black pvc - as seen in the first image

Hard parts:
- Shoulders look like knee or elbow pads for rollerblading.  Low end ones that dont have stress holes (just one solid piece).  Ive ye to find something that size, but based on the pipe going in for his arms, it rules out helmets.
- Body was milled, so we will have to find something that is close.
- Head - I dont even know where to start here.  It looks like a bucket with 80s voltron lion legs, but we know it was a small version. 
- Face - Vacuum form over a knob and the pterodactyl part will have to be cut out of wood or foam.  Like the head, this was a tiny part that I think they just 3d printed larger.  Unlike Waverly, I currently do not have the desire to make tiny Growler.

Thoughts, comments, get off the stage?
Title: Re: Growler
Post by: sd3 on August 09, 2017, 09:55:16 AM
I bet most of the head is 3d printed.  If you look over his left eye in the glare on the head it just has the cleaned up feel of a 3d printed part to me.

I don't think the hose is the same type of drain pipe used on Gypsy and Crow and all over the older episodes.  Here is some I found that looks much closer:

http://www.ducting.com/material-handling/dust-collection-hose/urethane-flex-general-purpose-black.html (http://www.ducting.com/material-handling/dust-collection-hose/urethane-flex-general-purpose-black.html)

And, drumroll please...the shoulders are...Bauer Vapor hockey shin guards.

(http://www.hockeyworld.com/common/images/products/large/sgapx1039058.jpg)

They are plentiful on ebay and the web in the $50-60 price range so don't go getting into bidding wars.

Be careful and do some research before you buy a pair.  They come in different sizes.

(http://www.hockeyworld.com/common/images/products/alt/large/bauer-shin.jpg)

I talked to a guy at a local ice rink pro shop and he says the hard shell parts are different sizes based on the size of the shin gaurd, but I am positive he didn't understand the context of what I was asking.  The youth sizes were definitely smaller than the senior, but  I am betting there are at most 2 or 3 size breaks through the junior/senior sizes.  He didn't have the full range of sizes for me to lay hands on but that is my guess based on my thoughts on how production would work.  I picked up a used M-14" because they were cheap and felt at least close to the right size.

Title: Re: Growler
Post by: Danzilla93 on August 09, 2017, 06:08:02 PM
Holy guacamole, nice find my friend!!!!!!!!  ;D

That's the first part that's been positively identified!  The only question now is what size pad correlates to the smaller Basement Bot version made with the actual parts, and what size correlates to the larger screen used puppet that was 3D printed.

Either way, this is a great find!  The hunt is truly afoot!  ;D
Title: Re: Growler
Post by: sd3 on August 10, 2017, 10:03:05 AM
Basement Bot Growler has totally different arms than full size Growler. 

I think they used the actual shin guard parts on the full size version.  Note the stitching holes.   Based on some of the mods they made to Waverly to 3d print him I don't think they would have bothered with the stitching holes if they were going to print that part.
Title: Re: Growler
Post by: fastbilly1 on August 10, 2017, 10:23:29 AM
I would have never thought of shingards for hockey.  But thats the southerner in me...
Title: Re: Growler
Post by: sd3 on August 10, 2017, 10:39:47 AM
I actually started out looking for baseball shin guards.

Then I found them at the pro shop where my kids take skating lessons.  It was a fun, lucky find.
Title: Re: Growler
Post by: Danzilla93 on August 10, 2017, 10:49:16 AM
Basement Bot Growler has totally different arms than full size Growler. 

I think they used the actual shin guard parts on the full size version.  Note the stitching holes.   Based on some of the mods they made to Waverly to 3d print him I don't think they would have bothered with the stitching holes if they were going to print that part.

I know his arms are different (most of him is!), but since a few parts are the same, like the head, it would be nice to know what size knee pads would scale with a smaller version that's the same DESIGN as the full sized bot, but the same SIZE as the Basement Bot.  He's got so many tubes that finding/building other parts for a smaller version would be feasible.  In a perfect world, though, it'd be nice to have all the parts in their final, 3D printed size...

Good observation about the stitch holes!  At least we won't have to print THAT part!  ;)
Title: Re: Growler
Post by: sd3 on August 10, 2017, 10:58:22 AM
Even the youth sized shin guards would too big for a basement bot scaled version of Growler...at least if he about the same size as basement bot Waverly.

Back to 3D printing.  ;D
Title: Re: Growler
Post by: fastbilly1 on August 13, 2017, 01:26:18 PM
So Growlers head may just be a bucket with animal legs from a toy set on it:
(https://www.cdkenterprises.com/images/super/bc20001xl.jpg)

That a dinosaur set from a company called Bloco:
http://www.blocotoys.com/

I could not find one that is the exact match but it is a different route to investigate.
Title: Re: Growler
Post by: Dr.cgad on September 03, 2017, 03:07:37 PM
Any updates?
Title: Re: Growler
Post by: Danzilla93 on September 11, 2017, 12:44:06 PM
DANG, those Dino toy legs are close!  Good eye, fastbilly!

Keep us up to speed on any more discoveries!
Title: Re: Growler
Post by: fastbilly1 on September 16, 2017, 09:14:25 AM
Ive not had much downtime thanks to a long series of interviews that ended up with me not getting a new job...  During my random downtime I do search for Growler parts but Ive not found anything new of note. 

Title: Re: Growler
Post by: fastbilly1 on October 23, 2017, 05:16:38 PM
The head is still a mystery.  I have learned far more about baby toys than I think any person who does not work in toys should know.

The original head may be a Playdough tub.  The old ones were not tapered.
The legs may be part of the Mecanno toddler line:
(http://www.plastics-themag.com/uploads/paragraphe/1340_main.jpg)
Title: Re: Growler
Post by: Danzilla93 on October 30, 2017, 10:16:43 AM
I have learned far more about baby toys than I think any person who does not work in toys should know.


Now you know how I feel about sandcastle molds.  ;)

I could teach a college course on those things now...
Title: Re: Growler
Post by: fastbilly1 on October 30, 2017, 11:27:37 AM
I still find myself looking and sandcastle molds randomly.  I am super prepared for when we finally have a kid, my child will be the king/queen of sandcastles with the amount of molds we have in the house.
Title: Re: Growler
Post by: Danzilla93 on November 14, 2017, 10:21:07 PM
I just got my MST3K: Season 11 box set and have devoured all the exclusive content.  One of the coolest parts was a behind the scenes gallery, and there were some FASCINATING shots of the bots and props.

I found a nice shot of Growler, among a few other gems.  I'll post some more screenshots soon!
Title: Re: Growler
Post by: fastbilly1 on November 23, 2017, 08:52:52 PM
Nose could be a keychain of a dinosaur or a spaceship:
(https://cdn-images.farfetch-contents.com/11/26/76/09/11267609_6071463_322.jpg)

Alot of random toys in the 90s had keychains in the box for some reason.  I have emailed the only Power Ranger collector I know about it.

Title: Re: Growler
Post by: Dr.cgad on September 27, 2018, 07:33:00 AM
I had a dream where i saw the lower half of growler, but it was twerking.
Title: Re: Growler
Post by: fastbilly1 on September 28, 2018, 08:09:01 AM
I think Growlers Piano is a Goplus Wood Toy Grand Piano 30 Keys for Childs with Bench (Black):
https://www.amazon.com/Goplus-Grand-Piano-Childs-Bench/dp/B015MFPSPO#CustomerImages
It has the same cam for the lid and the same chrome boltheads.

In looking at his head closely on the first image, behind the pterodactyl part you can see a ridge that looks like a meccano/erector set part but it curves up behind it (obviously given the impression of a eyebrow or face crease).  I do not see it clearly in the basement bot, but we only have one picture of it.
Title: Re: Growler
Post by: fastbilly1 on November 12, 2018, 12:35:30 PM
New trailer has Growler playing an organ of inflatable arm waving men (1:09) as well as a clip of him in the theater (0:45).  Pics when I am on a pc
Title: Re: Growler
Post by: Oldeworldsmith on November 27, 2018, 12:15:29 PM
Just wondering if anyone has seen the images posted to the Instagram account of dariendhester, who worked at Jacob Design LLC back in 2017? He posted a batch of images both of Waverly and Growler under construction. What's interesting is that they show the earliest full-size experimentations on Growler having a lot more parts from Joel's small model being included. Stuff such a the cross-tubes on the chest and an enlarged Triceratops head for the groin:

(https://i.postimg.cc/qR0TrDCj/growler-01.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/6qpx27cZ/growler-02.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/BQtGJKX9/growler-03.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/Y0DK1pDs/growler-04.jpg) (https://i.postimg.cc/qB1TfLBx/growler-05.jpg)

I asked him the golden question back then too and as most have already correctly deduced, the majority of his most interesting parts are all 3-D printed or milled:

(https://i.postimg.cc/TY8YN0tN/growler-06.jpg)
Title: Re: Growler
Post by: fastbilly1 on November 28, 2018, 09:27:09 PM
Even though every part was fabricated, it still helps to see them from the other angles, thanks Oldeworldsmith.
Title: Re: Growler
Post by: fastbilly1 on January 03, 2019, 03:32:37 PM
I was way off, his hands are hockey gloves:
(https://images.purehockey.com/img.aspx?pic_id=122128&pic_type=4)

I should have thought about that with the shin guards discovery.
Title: Re: Growler
Post by: Oldeworldsmith on January 08, 2019, 02:09:21 PM
Brilliant connection fastbilly1! I decided to try and ID the model & brand of gloves that we can see in the prototyping image from Instagram. I think I did find them! Though it's a bit hard to say if these model of gloves made it all the way through to the final puppet or not. I have to try and find some better images of Growler's hands but the thumbs of the hockey gloves seem somewhat useless to me for movement if they were left unaltered from their off-the-shelf state.

In the first image I raised the brightness of the glove in the Instagram image to get a better look at the shape of the ridges and markings on the back of the gloves. Also, after some digging I confirmed that what I thought could be the letters "e A" printed on the wrist strap are "e R," just obscured by the duct tape. Which does indeed make them "Bauer" brand, same as the knee pads that make up his shoulders:

(https://i.postimg.cc/CZmgr80W/Bauer-Glove.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CZmgr80W)

The second image is a pair I found via Google image searching that seem to have the same back-of-hand, foam-guard shapes with light grey pin-striping as seen in the prototype photo. They are Bauer Vapor x60 SR hockey gloves.

(https://i.postimg.cc/YjVpwQF7/vaporx60-1024x1024.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YjVpwQF7)

The only sales pages I could find for that model feature them in the same shape, but in different colors and with bright white pin-striping. Seeing as how they eventually become green, their original colors likely don't matter. However I couldn't find any web stores that still had them in stock. Guess it's time for eBay hunting!

A couple store links:
https://www.hockeyworld.com/BAUER-Vapor-X60-Hockey-Glove-Sr (https://www.hockeyworld.com/BAUER-Vapor-X60-Hockey-Glove-Sr)
https://discounthockey.com/products/bauer-vapor-x60-hockey-gloves-senior (https://discounthockey.com/products/bauer-vapor-x60-hockey-gloves-senior)
Looks like Amazon (as of this posting) has a pair but at that price, NO THANK YOU SIRS:
https://www.amazon.com/Bauer-Senior-Vapor-X60-Glove/dp/B00XOU0X32 (https://www.amazon.com/Bauer-Senior-Vapor-X60-Glove/dp/B00XOU0X32)
Title: Re: Growler
Post by: fastbilly1 on January 08, 2019, 03:22:33 PM
Growler is going to end up being the second most expensive bot to build after Gypsy.  He is already at like $300 and we have only figured out his arms...
Title: Re: Growler
Post by: Oldeworldsmith on January 09, 2019, 09:48:30 AM
No kidding! :o

I found a pair on eBay though for $80.00. I realize sourcing bot parts has never been a cheap hobby and that's still steep in my opinion, but not nearly as painful as $200. So I decided to take one for the team and buy them. They look correct but the only way to know for sure is to examine them in-hand. If they aren't the gloves we're all looking for, at least we'll know. I've lost money on false alarm parts before so I won't cry... Too much. I'll post pics when they arrive.

Title: Re: Growler
Post by: Oldeworldsmith on January 14, 2019, 11:06:39 AM
I received the Bauer gloves this weekend, so here's a photo dump of them and my assessment of their accuracy.

(https://i.postimg.cc/xqzJvmT2/01.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xqzJvmT2) (https://i.postimg.cc/LgLJ2c0X/02.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LgLJ2c0X) (https://i.postimg.cc/sBHQc9hV/03.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sBHQc9hV) (https://i.postimg.cc/0zfJ6q5K/04.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0zfJ6q5K) (https://i.postimg.cc/6yCZXvD0/05.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/6yCZXvD0) (https://i.postimg.cc/BtrFkgwb/06.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BtrFkgwb) (https://i.postimg.cc/cgKK5gRf/07.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cgKK5gRf) (https://i.postimg.cc/ygwJq1jt/08.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ygwJq1jt) (https://i.postimg.cc/18Pq5zSZ/09.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/18Pq5zSZ) (https://i.postimg.cc/B8nPHwtY/10.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/B8nPHwtY) (https://i.postimg.cc/Hjc56KzF/11.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Hjc56KzF)

Observations:
I really do think these are a found-part match! The shapes are all present and correct to the screen used version in as many photos and screenshots as I've been able to observe.

Like most hockey gloves, movement in the fingers is possible, but doesn't provide a large amount of movement. The main digits are easiest to move (and decently tickle a keyboard) but the thumb is as useless for broad motion as I had guessed- It's only ambulation possible being used for pressing inward to the palm.

They are HUGE! I see that they come in slightly different sizes. The pair I found say they are 15"-38cm. I have no idea how we'd discover what size on-screen Growler uses as it's printed on the inside of the cuff but I'm hoping it's safe to say that most of the adult sized gloves are fairly close in scale to each other.

I'm certain the gloves used for the show are the all-black variety. That makes the palm sections already dyed black and the need to paint over bright pin-striping in the cracks between the finger foam moot. But it unfortunately looks like it's going to take an act of good fortune to find a fully black pair -or any pair- for that matter.

The biggest concern for me and the no.1 telltale detail that these are the real deal and that they kept the gloves as-is was going to be found with those goofy thumbs.

This photo highlights the area in which the thumb rests within the glove and how that then attaches to the large thumb guard with a "fabric loop."

(https://i.postimg.cc/G8wpm70S/Thumb-loop.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G8wpm70S)

Next are some screengrabs where you can indeed see the same thick thumb guard and the loops!

(https://i.postimg.cc/zHpDpqy9/SS-1.png) (https://postimg.cc/zHpDpqy9) (https://i.postimg.cc/qgcLcqLz/SS-2.png) (https://postimg.cc/qgcLcqLz) (https://i.postimg.cc/5jWgFL8h/SS-3.png) (https://postimg.cc/5jWgFL8h) (https://i.postimg.cc/G8Fm8Fd3/SS-4.png) (https://postimg.cc/G8Fm8Fd3)

The next question I have is if the large wrist guard (the part bears the large "BaUeR" logo on it) is still present on the puppet as well. The bad part is that I can't find any photos or angles of his hands on-screen that give me complete satisfaction that it's there... Except for maybe this one from PuppetGarage's Instagram:

(https://i.postimg.cc/p9nTxNSF/intsa.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/p9nTxNSF)

Now this is "Shadow Growler" (Timmy Growler?) and we've seen that the shadow versions can sometimes vary slightly from the regular versions. Yet, when we raise the brightness on the photo we can not only see that the wrist guard is still present (red outline), but that it's attached to the tube arms with bolts and washers in exactly the same place where I now know the rest of the glove should still exist (blue outline). Which means, beyond being painted and re-colored, the gloves are probably not modified in any other way from their off-the-shelf state!

Of course the other obvious dead-giveaway that the wrist guard is present is that Shadow Growler still sports the white letters of the Bauer logo!  ;)

(https://i.postimg.cc/LhBjGWGX/hand-puppet.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LhBjGWGX)

I can also confirm that the gloves' large openings and flaps at the base of the palm area make it ideal for puppeteering with your arm inserted from below- while still allowing plenty of space above your own wrist for the arm-tubing to be attached.

So again, I think this model of hockey glove is indeed likely confirmed!
Title: Re: Growler
Post by: Ron on February 11, 2019, 06:52:03 PM
Awesome write-up, sir!